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reaperexpress said:
Cameras and inductive loop detectors are functionally identical.
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Absolutely not. An inductive loop detector can only tell that there is a car above the inductive loop detector. The cameras can count exactly how many cars are in the left turn lane, and literally see the cars leaving the lane and hold the light until they clear the intersection (within reason)

Cameras are functionally way better than any other system because they simply give you more data, end of story.
 
robmausser said:
Absolutely not. An inductive loop detector can only tell that there is a car above the inductive loop detector. The cameras can count exactly how many cars are in the left turn lane, and literally see the cars leaving the lane and hold the light until they clear the intersection (within reason)

Cameras are functionally way better than any other system because they simply give you more data, end of story.
Click to expand...
You really can't judge the end of the story without having read any other part of the book.

Inductive loops already do all those things which you are claiming to be unique features of cameras.

The time it takes to clear the intersection is also irrelevant to the duration of the green light (and thus also irrelevant for vehicle detection). That's what clearance time is for.

If I feel like it this evening I'll write a longer response to explain the basics of vehicle detection to you. In the meantime, check out this blog post of mine:
https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress.com/2020/10/10/how-vehicle-actuation-works/
 
Traffic signals are being installed on Shuter Street at Sackville and Sumach, replacing pedestrian crossovers.

I don’t think these are at all necessary, given the slow speeds on Shuter (it’s a two-lane 30 km/h zone, and there are protected bike lanes and street parking) here.
 
ShonTron said:
Traffic signals are being installed on Shuter Street at Sackville and Sumach, replacing pedestrian crossovers.

I don’t think these are at all necessary, given the slow speeds on Shuter (it’s a two-lane 30 km/h zone, and there are protected bike lanes and street parking) here.
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I am happy to throw the signal group of Transportation under the bus..........

However, they're off the hook here.

Have a look at what last year's report said:


1689106671859.png



It was the interim Councillor who imposed these with this motion:

1689106801360.png

Agenda Item History 2022.TE34.150

Agenda Item History 2022.TE34.150
secure.toronto.ca
 
This is usually how it goes. I often look up the approval process when I see a signal go in in a completely stupid place, and usually Transportation Services recommended that the signal not be installed but Community Council voted to overrule them and install it anway. From what I've seen, the staff in the signals operations group, District traffic operations groups and TTC operations group are all opposed to the ridiculous overproliferation of signals in illogical places, though the District often faces political pressure to adjust their recommendations to reduce opposition to the proposed unwarranted signal.

I think that we (the public) and City staff need to help educate council about the fact that signals are not some magic solution that makes traffic collisions disappear, and help them understand the roadway adjustments which actually do improve safety. On roads with 2+ lanes per direction, there are unfortunately few alternatives, but when there's only one lane per direction there are many safer and faster ways of getting pedestrians across the street.
 
robmausser said:
Absolutely not. An inductive loop detector can only tell that there is a car above the inductive loop detector. The cameras can count exactly how many cars are in the left turn lane, and literally see the cars leaving the lane and hold the light until they clear the intersection (within reason)

Cameras are functionally way better than any other system because they simply give you more data, end of story.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was recently stuck at the stem of a T intersection for several minutes in a long line of cars because the car at the head of the left lane stopped one car length back, behind the loop. Eventually people started using the right lane to turn left on the red in front of him, and when our turn came we stopped, got his attention, and motioned for him to move up (he was on his phone without a care in the world). After we made our left on the red across him he finally moved, and in the rearview mirror the light cycled and began clearing the backlog. That would not have happened with a camera instead of the loop.
 
KevinT said:
Agreed. I was recently stuck at the stem of a T intersection for several minutes in a long line of cars because the car at the head of the left lane stopped one car length back, behind the loop. Eventually people started using the right lane to turn left on the red in front of him, and when our turn came we stopped, got his attention, and motioned for him to move up (he was on his phone without a care in the world). After we made our left on the red across him he finally moved, and in the rearview mirror the light cycled and began clearing the backlog. That would not have happened with a camera instead of the loop.
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It also would not have happened with proper in ground loop detector placement. Putting only a single loop in the lane guarantees lots of wasted time because the signal has no way of knowing what cars are coming until they are already entering the intersection, by which time it's too late. I explained this in my blog post linked earlier.

capture.jpg
 
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reaperexpress said:
It also would not have happened with proper in ground loop detector placement. Putting only a single loop in the lane guarantees lots of wasted time because the signal has no way of knowing what cars are coming until they are already entering the intersection, by which time it's too late. I explained this in my blog post linked earlier.
Click to expand...

Very true, but I doubt that Waterloo Region would ever pay to put multiple loops into any intersection, especially this one which is slated to become a roundabout. (It's only had signals for two years.) A camera at least can be redeployed.
 
KevinT said:
Very true, but I doubt that Waterloo Region would ever pay to put multiple loops into any intersection, especially this one which is slated to become a roundabout. (It's only had signals for two years.) A camera at least can be redeployed.
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Indeed this is precisely the advantage of cameras: they are much cheaper to install per detection zone, since one camera can inclue many detection zones. With more and more cities moving towards cameras rather than in-ground detectors, they should update their detection zone configuration standards to take advantage of the fact that you can add additional detection zones at no cost (using the same camera). So far they seem to be replicating the old inefficient detection layout which was designed based on minimizing the number of detection zones to cut costs.
 
Collectively, UT, we need to badger our new Mayor, and several members of Council to say this is not ok, that it has to stop.

A traffic light on ever single block is ridiculous, does not add to safety in the least and obstructs transit, cyclists and pedestrians as much as it does drivers.

Safety is important and ought to be improved, but the art form is narrowing roads, narrowing travel lanes, eliminating slip lanes, tightening turning radii, prohibiting super-long tractor-trailers on City streets, mandating side guards on trucks/buses etc; as well as creating protected, separated cycling facilities, adequate night-time illumination, protected intersections where appropriate and feasible.

It is not about endless traffic lights.
 
New traffic lights being installed at Dundas and Wimbleton. In this case I'd say they are very justified.
 
Last spring, traffic lights were approved (by TYYCC) for installation at Frederick and Front (at Young peoples Theatre) and are in 'final planning stage for fall 2023 instalaltion. Initially, I thought this was a stupid idea but with the one-way maze on The Esplanade (which I like), lots of traffic is now going north on Frederick St and it REALLY is very hard to cross Front or turn west for a larger and larger part of the day.
 
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