interchange42

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The ROM paid good money for that aluminum siding; that was expensive stuff. Why they didn't demand the German supplier replace the defective bits with siding that all matched we may never know… but the ROM was determined to open in time for Luminato 2006, so maybe they threw up their hands and just got it finished.

In terms of what I meant on the last page re: Tridel being surprised by the reception of 300, yes, I meant on UrbanToronto. The industry, generally, is sensitive to the comments that end up on UrbanToronto, and while not every single critical post is going to be taken as authoritative, they can see which way the wind is blowing on the threads.

Just over a third of UrbanToronto's readership (according to the survey we conducted last December) identify themselves as being part of the development industry/process in some way, either working with a development firm, a design firm, a planning firm, a sales and marketing firm, or in local government. There are a lot of eyeballs glued to these pages which are attached to people who make a difference in what gets built here. Not that you're always going to get what you want…

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Torontovibe

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^^ IF that is the case, let me make my plea.


Tridel, (and other developers) PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go easy with the grey spandrel. Sometimes less really does = more. If you are afraid of colour, black and white make much better options.
(real black, not dark greyish)

Please make grey spandrel, grey windows trim, grey door trim, grey metal, grey lamp posts and grey awnings, a thing of the past!

Toronto has enough grey to last for another 2 or 3 development cycles.
 

cruzin4u

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I smell bullshit. You are telling me Tridel didn't know how everything was going to look before installing it on the building? So they essentially bought spandrel THINKING it was going to look good?
Do they not put test panels up of everything and look at it or do they just go guns a blazing and put in an order for everything HOPING it will look good once installed? Everything on 300 Front is a giant mess and someone should be held responsible for it. How come other developers, who are new to the game, get it and a 50 yr old company can't get it right?

Take a look at Theatre Park by Mr. Lamb (relatively new) and then 300 Front by Tridel (a veteran in the industry) and tell me which product is far more superior? (I am talking about the exterior at the moment).

And Tridel isn't "getting it" - just take a look at The Old Mill and you can see they are still using hideous looking spandrel/mullion crap once again. 50 years and they are still trying to "figure it out". To note, Hullmark Centre was a collaboration between Hullmark and Tridel. If it weren't for Mr. Murphy Hull's legacy, I am sure Hullmark Centre would look similar to 300 Spandrel (300 Front).
 
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junctionist

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The ROM paid good money for that aluminum siding; that was expensive stuff. Why they didn't demand the German supplier replace the defective bits with siding that all matched we may never know… but the ROM was determined to open in time for Luminato 2006, so maybe they threw up their hands and just got it finished.

In terms of what I meant on the last page re: Tridel being surprised by the reception of 300, yes, I meant on UrbanToronto. The industry, generally, is sensitive to the comments that end up on UrbanToronto, and while not every single critical post is going to be taken as authoritative, they can see which way the wind is blowing on the threads.

Just over a third of UrbanToronto's readership (according to the survey we conducted last December) identify themselves as being part of the development industry/process in some way, either working with a development firm, a design firm, a planning firm, a sales and marketing firm, or in local government. There are a lot of eyeballs glued to these pages which are attached to people who make a difference in what gets built here. Not that you're always going to get what you want…

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I suspect as much because there was a time when we were seeing an increasing number of towers built with ugly "back shed" mechanical penthouses. We criticized it for good reason: the tops of towers are focal points for the architecture. To put an ugly box up there can seriously detract from the quality of the architecture. Now, they're rare, with the mechanical penthouses properly integrated into the facades of towers.
 

alklay

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I too don't buy the line that Tridel and the architect did not know how horrible 300 Front would be. Tridel had plenty of experience (sadly too much) with spandrel to understand that the building was going to look less than ideal. I think the only thing they were surprised about, was the reaction to the mess (not the fact that they in fact created a mess).
 

egotrippin

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It's a learning process.

They didn't think they were building a piece of trash on Front. Tridel are just getting out of the all-brick vernacular in the last while, and they are slowly getting used to the windowwall/spandrel/mullion thing. They honestly didn't get it when we started trashing 300 Front, they thought they were going to get something good looking, and were not aware just how pronounced those million mullions were going to be on the final product. Too bad they had to learn on such a large building in such a prominent location.

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I'm not quite sure I buy this. They built that whole Metrogate development over in Scarborough that looks downright sleek compared to 300 (which isn't say much, but 300 looks like a step backwards). 300 isn't their first predominantly glass building by any stretch, so I don't understand how they could possibly be so surprised by this outcome. James Cooper Mansion, nothing learned from that one? (Hint: it's ruined by ugly spandrel and fussy mullions).

No, I think the real story is that several years of heinous cladding choices has finally caught up with them. Here's hoping they've truly learned, lest we become graced by a 65 storey tribute to the most ungainly and uninspiring cladding system to ever grace a highrise building.
 

Torontovibe

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The problem with this tower, is that when you see it from the north or south sides, it will look like a straight up and down glass grid, just like on 300 Front. You won't even notice the tapered, flat iron effect. If the same ugly spandrel is used on this building, it will look like one huge, boring wall of glass/spandrel. I'm thankful that at least it won't be grey spandrel but I fear it has too little distinguishing details or design features. There is very little contrasting colours or textures in the materials. I just hope it turns out better then the model in their showroom. That model scares me.
 

ushahid

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it might end up looking like 1 king west and if that will be the case it won't look that bad.
 

someMidTowner

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buildup

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All the second guessing is a concern. Didn't this building get special attention from some sort of design review panel? It was redesigned and supposedly improved upon. Is Tridel family owned and managed? That can sometimes be a problem, not a meritocracy environment. I dont know much about it. As I recall Tridel did 10 Bellair so they cant say they are new to this.
 

Ramako

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All the second guessing is a concern. Didn't this building get special attention from some sort of design review panel? It was redesigned and supposedly improved upon. Is Tridel family owned and managed? That can sometimes be a problem, not a meritocracy environment. I dont know much about it. As I recall Tridel did 10 Bellair so they cant say they are new to this.

I think Tridel is owned and operated by the three DelZotto brothers. Get it?... Tri-Del

From the discussion earlier in the thread, apparently Tridel has taken the criticisms to heart regarding the overuse of spandrel and window wall on their other projects (notably 300 Front), particularly given that this is such a prominent site. Consequently I think it's safe to expect high quality materials here, but ultimately I'm not sure how much that will be able to save this very pedestrian design (and one of Wallman's worst in my opinion).
 

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