[sixrings]

I can half agree with you - in that, any transit investment that relies on a pre-covid business case assuming high peak period commuting demand needs a revisit to see if the numbers will still be there.

As to the Milton line, the demographic of the residents in suburbs that feed that line are exactly those who are most able to work from home. Whereas, the transit pro's I talk to tell me that the transit demands of the logistics centers that run along Steeles/Hiway 7 from Highway 400 over to Highway 25 are now virtually insatiable, and their shift work patterns are far from 9 to 5 ish. Perhaps some of the money that would be required to upgrade the Milton line is better spent (in terms of revenue and riders per $M invested) on that ridership, and sooner.

GO RER is still defensible as a regional network and better choice than highway travel, - but it may plateau as a 15-20 minute headway service serving non-commuting travellers with non-employment needs. The vision of peak ridership demanding 5 - 7.5 minute headways, bringing hordes into downtownToronto employment locations, may not materialise as quickly as previously thought. For 2WAD, 5 - 7.5 minute headways may be decades away.

If Milton RER goes ahead, I'm certainly not going to complain. But I do think there has been a shift in the underlying tectonic plates, and we need to recalibrate and not assume what might in the past have seemed to be a no-brainer business case.

- Paul

I’m just confused how “the demographic of the residents in suburbs that feed that line are exactly those who are most able to work from home.” Do all homes in Milton and Mississauga come with home offices while Barrie, Ajax, aurora, Vaughan don’t.

 

[Undead]

And who is doing the saying. We've almost all worked from home. If we want to be honest with ourselves, we all know (at least those with lives and families, and especially young kids), that we don't get the same amount of work done in 8 hours at home, compared to 8 hours at work, and have a lot more interruptions. Sure, if you've got a massive deadline, and you aren't given what you need in the office to close the door and work in peace, you might get more work done at home; but that's the exception.

Laughably false, sorry.

 

[crs1026]

I’m just confused how “the demographic of the residents in suburbs that feed that line are exactly those who are most able to work from home.” Do all homes in Milton and Mississauga come with home offices while Barrie, Ajax, aurora, Vaughan don’t.

I wasn't suggesting that Mississauga is different from other comparable residential zones. People are working from home in all of them. Their homes likely weren't built with an office, but people have figured out how to work that space in somehow. Or done reno's.

My point was simply that the Milton line's domain is exactly the kind of territory where work from home is becoming prevalent, and that is why there are fewer GO trains today than pre-covid. ML doesn't seem to be in a hurry to restore service to its former peak. It may take a long time for that demand to come back.

Personally, I don't get how people can work from just a table with a laptop on it. My office was stuffed with binders and files, and I needed them all day long....and the office high speed printer and plotter. Even my home office has two screens. But people seem to be doing it - and keeping employed, so they must be hitting their deliverables.

Interestingly, ML itself imposed a must-come-to-office regime at one point post covid, likely wanting to walk the talk of bringing their ridership back to the office. They had to back away, as it proved unpopular to the point of triggering resignations.

- Paul

 

[turbanplanner]

Outside of a few silly HR types, the exact opposite in my experience. Everyone uses whatever excuse they can to get more wfh. And we're facing the same issue with space.

Nobody wants to pay 8 years left on a 10 year lease, lots of people going back in. The PATH is more full every time I visit

 

[sixrings]

I wasn't suggesting that Mississauga is different from other comparable residential zones. People are working from home in all of them. Their homes likely weren't built with an office, but people have figured out how to work that space in somehow. Or done reno's.

My point was simply that the Milton line's domain is exactly the kind of territory where work from home is becoming prevalent, and that is why there are fewer GO trains today than pre-covid. ML doesn't seem to be in a hurry to restore service to its former peak. It may take a long time for that demand to come back.

Personally, I don't get how people can work from just a table with a laptop on it. My office was stuffed with binders and files, and I needed them all day long....and the office high speed printer and plotter. Even my home office has two screens. But people seem to be doing it - and keeping employed, so they must be hitting their deliverables.

Interestingly, ML itself imposed a must-come-to-office regime at one point post covid, likely wanting to walk the talk of bringing their ridership back to the office. They had to back away, as it proved unpopular to the point of triggering resignations.

- Paul

No matter what a few trains in and out a day is unacceptable and should have been rectified a long time ago. Personally I’d like to have access to a train twice an hour all day. I could live with that. But what we have now is crazy in comparison to the rest of the network.

Twice an hour and the train actually make it to square one.

 

[Undead]

Nobody wants to pay 8 years left on a 10 year lease, lots of people forced back in. The PATH is more full every time I visit

FTFY.

Also sunk costs fallacy. Those spaces should have been sent to pasture years ago.

 

[turbanplanner]

FTFY.

Also sunk costs fallacy. Those spaces should have been sent to pasture years ago.

That's not really for us to decide. If management feels work quality is going down then they're free to ask people to go back.
I was happy to go back not everyone wants to sit in their house 23 hours a day.

I found starting a job that was 100% was miserable since onboarding was like pulling teeth, I found a lot of people were also goofing off most if not all of the day.

The good part at least is that yonge isn't running at 110% capacity so it will buy us time till the station is rebuilt

 

[Undead]

Ah yes, infallible management. Anyway, happy to take this to a dedicated thread since the topic reoccurs regularly.

 

[turbanplanner]

Ah yes, infallible management. Anyway, happy to take this to a dedicated thread since the topic reoccurs regularly.

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/return-to-office-discussion.34830/ made a thread

 

[Deadpool X]

If WFH is an excuse not to do anything then we should just stop the Scarborough subway extension right now, stop studying a magical Bolton go line and cancel that Yonge subway to Richmond hill

GO trains have much higher proportion of downtown bound office workers that work 9 to 5 compared to Subway. That's why GO's ridership dropped much more significantly than TTC's. Subway lines will still have tons of users even with WFH.

 

[sixrings]

GO trains have much higher proportion of downtown bound office workers that work 9 to 5 compared to Subway. That's why GO's ridership dropped much more significantly than TTC's. Subway lines will still have tons of users even with WFH.

Well then why wouldn’t Mississauga residents advocate for subway then. I’d rather the hour subway ride from square one then four go trains in the morning and at night no matter how much quicker it is.

 

[Deadpool X]

Well then why wouldn’t Mississauga residents advocate for subway then. I’d rather the hour subway ride from square one then four go trains in the morning and at night no matter how much quicker it is.

Maybe because advocating alone isn't enough. Subway would be a money pit with very few riders.

 

[toaster29]

Interesting. I guess it really just depends on the workplace and the industry.

I think you are trying to misrepresent your anecdote with a general consensus. It's a universal consensus that Canadians prefer remote work - across all industries. Study after study in Canada have shown this. Future Skills Centre had it at 78% of Canadian prefer working at home, Hardbacon found that 81% would leave their job if forced to work full time from the office. Be careful when you post something you "heard" (my guess it's what you want the consensus to be - but you misrepresented it as hearing it from someone to give it credence) - the trend is overwhelmingly the other way.

Now whether or not this will continue is another question.

 

[sixrings]

Maybe because advocating alone isn't enough. Subway would be a money pit with very few riders.

True but there’s been plenty of terrible transit planning just to get a few votes despite the extra billion here or there. I’m not saying it’s right but this is the Pandora’s box which has been opened building subways to nowhere.

 

[nfitz]

I think you are trying to misrepresent your anecdote with a general consensus. It's a universal consensus that Canadians prefer remote work - across all industries.

It's also a universal consensus that Canadians prefer screwing the pooch for part of the day, rather than putting in a full 8-hours of labour.

With WFH you can kill two angry birds with one stone.