[sunnyraytoronto]

City Staff's “Enhance Yonge” with 4.5m Padded Centre Median
City Staff’s current “Enhance Yonge” version has unjustified 4.5m padded Centre Median at the cost of pedestrian sidewalk width to hide padded Centre Median scheme of “Transform Yonge” north of Sheppard and make "Transform Yonge" look more favourable (with more "pedestrian clearway" width)

Page 18: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2018/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-110645.pdf

Notice: With the 4.5m padded Centre Median, the middle 3.3m Drive Lane and 3.0m Drive Lane are not to City Specs (should be 3.2m each for 50km/hr lanes; thus 0.1m short!) the Pedestrian Clearway struggles to meet the 2.1 minimum requirement for Major Arterial Road,.... hmm,.. that's a hint!
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-26#post-1313156

(I'd also add, in relation to the prior staff VS. Council debate that the city also brings in outside experts for these projects, WSP in this case. So people like Shiner and Tory are ignoring them too, and after paying them to do the work. The whole process is perverse.)

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-27#post-1313871​

See how "perverse" it is for City Staff & Consultants to manipulate the design of "Transform Yonge" (north) while sabotaging "Enhance Yonge" with 4.5m Centre Median along with "Transform Beecroft" to get community support (wider sidewalk) for their preferred "Transform Yonge" option (force through Outside Special Interest Groups' "Minimum Grid" policy; NOT a policy supported by City Council or Mayor but yet hidden in City Planning "Complete Streets" and Transportation Services "Major Corridor Study").

Outcome with 4.5m Padded Centre Median:
- 2.1m Pedestrian Clearway (on 33.5m City Right-Of-Way)
- Gain 0.25m (lane narrowing) in sidewalk width throughout corridor (physical & density weighted average)
- Uniform addition/enhancement of tree-lined curb on every block of Yonge Street
Bonus:
- No lost of traffic lanes
- Beecroft get CycleTracks, & sidewalk work (more needed in older south half VS north half at only 5-10 years old)
 

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

SUMMARY:

Note: Since sidewalk along west-side are generally much wider than those on east-side of Yonge Street, Centre line of Yonge Street roadway will shift westward by about a 0.5 to 1 meter; thus east-side will see more pedestrian sidewalk width gain than west-side.

Since "Pedestrian Clearway" is so subjective and open to manipulation,... focus on actual pedestrian sidewalk width gain from the curb-to-curb roadway.

Focusing on the Total Sidewalk width gain (amount actually taken from roadway); Councillor Shiner's 6-lane "Enhance Yonge" *SHOULD* (@ 3.0m Centre Median) deliver sidewalk width gains of 1/3 MORE (Physical average 1m VS 0.76m) & over 3 times MORE (on density weighted average 1m VS 0.30m) VS Councillor Filion's "Transform Yonge" with CycleTrack.
Note: the above doesn't factor in the size of street furniture increasing by 30cm!

Of the 2.2m potential pedestrian sidewalk width gain in "Transform Yonge"; less than half materialize since:
- MTO insist on 6-lanes Sheppard & southward
- CityStaff STOLE 75cm to pad Centre Median (to Cover Their @ss) so they can switch back to a 6-lane system easier!

See, "Transform Yonge" isn't a Cyclist & Pedestrian VS 6-Lane of Traffic debate but really a,... Bike VS Pedestrian & 6-Lane of Traffic issue (due to CycleTrack causing lost of pedestrian sidewalk width (@Sheppard & south along with CityStaff stealing sidewalk width to pad Centre Median) and traffic lane (north of Sheppard))


Never ever assume City Staff are honest and place City's best interest first,.... connecting the dot between CityStaff false "Traffic Model" and why they padded the Centre Median to 4.5m even though existing Centre Median is 3.0m (remember project objective was to maximize pedestrian sidewalk space!),.... thus, Councillor Shiner's "Enhance Yonge" and "Transform Beecroft" is actually serving the greater good for Ward 23 and his Ward 24, Willowdale and the City,...

When City Staff & Consultants don't have the Community's and City's best interest as priority, since they place outside agenda first (forcing in $12 million CycleTrack PILOT Study expected to fail (that's why they're padding Centre Median) that'll cause massive traffic gridlock, divert more traffic into surrounding neighbourhoods and jam Yonge Subway Line); Public Works & Infrastructure Committee and Mayor Tory were right to ignore staff recommendation and by stepping in with a modified version,.. the locals will actually see the widest pedestrian sidewalk width gain on Yonge Street and see "Transform Beecroft" done as well.

Councillor Filion should vote against his own "Transform Yonge" and vote in favour of Councillor Shiner's "Enhance Yonge" (with 3.0m Centre Median) design since that'll deliver the wider pedestrian sidewalk on Yonge (what Councillor Filion's constituents want!) and deliver more infrastructure money into North York Centre!

 

[mkerian]

I prefer four lanes on Yonge north of Sheppard.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

When City Staff & Consultants don't have the Community's and City's best interest as priority, since they place outside agenda first (forcing in $12 million CycleTrack PILOT Study expected to fail (that's why they're padding Centre Median) that'll cause massive traffic gridlock, divert more traffic into surrounding neighbourhoods and jam Yonge Subway Line); Public Works & Infrastructure Committee and Mayor Tory were right to ignore staff recommendation and by stepping in with a modified version,.. the locals will actually see the widest pedestrian sidewalk width gain on Yonge Street and see "Transform Beecroft" done as well.

What evidence do you have that staff doesn't have the community's and city's best interest as priority? So far I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

What evidence do you have that staff doesn't have the community's and city's best interest as priority? So far I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that.

- Keep EXISTING 3.0m Centre Median (already minimized since left turn lane targeted at 3.0m)

​

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-27#post-1317411

From City's Images from May 25, 2016 Open House Display Panels (page 15 & 16): https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/97d3-REImagining-Yonge-Street-PIC-1-Display-Panels.pdf

The existing Centre Median is 3.0m,... they're even proposing new Centre Median at Sheppard and south be 3.0m (where there's no lane reduction for CycleTracks),... but north of Sheppard where there's lane reduction for CycleTracks they're proposing 4.5m Centre Median,... hmm,...
​

Re-read my post on Councillor Filion’s $51 million 4-lane “Transform Yonge” North of Sheppard (with CycleTracks) – “Engineered For Failure” Design,... the evidence is in their design.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-28#post-1317414

What's "perverse" is,.... City Staff & WSP padded Centre Median from existing 3.0m to 4.5m,... by stealing pedestrian sidewalk width!,... the stated project objective is to maximize pedestrian sidewalk space! Now expensive ($10 million) tree-lined streetscape items are far enough apart to easily facilitate a switch-back to 6-lane system (translation: this is an expensive $12 million CycleTrack Pilot Study VS $1 million for Bike Lane Pilot Study); shows City Staff expected CycleTracks to fail and City Staff's Traffic Modelling is wrong using 0.6% annual increase in traffic volume; yet North York Center and 905 population grows at around 3% annually.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/yonge-street-north-york-streetscape-improvements.25913/page-24#post-1311431

Note: Padding each side of Centre Median by 75cm is significant because it allows them to switch back to a 6-lane system without having to shift any of the $10million row of trees. Per side,... Sidewalk gain from 3.2m travel lane to 2.7m CycleTrack (including 0.7m curb buffer) = 1.2m; Two 3.2m Travel Lanes reduced to 3.0m (more suitable for 40km/hr) + 25cm gutter reduced to 20cm minimum = 45cm. 1.2m - 45cm = 75cm! End up at “Minimal” 6-Lane Base: shaved 4.5m Centre Median back down to 3.0m, curb buffer loses 0.05m (both Stolen 75cm Sidewalk Width back on roadway).

​

In addition, City Staff's "Enhance Yonge" using 4.5m padded Centre Median at cost of pedestrian sidewalk width (Note: that's even less sidewalk width than we have now!) to skew results of Community Consultation towards their favoured "Transform Yonge"
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-28#post-1317415

In the end "Enhance Yonge" will get back down to 3.0m Centre Median!

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I prefer four lanes on Yonge north of Sheppard.

The original REimagining Yonge just a simple streetscape beautification project from Sheppard to Finch (all within Councillor Filion's Ward 23),... so getting "Transform Yonge" north in just that section with 1.45cm pedestrian sidewalk gain per side would have been easier,.... But then the CycleToronto/Minimum-Grid advocates overtook the community consultations and requested:
- it be extended north to Finch Hydro Corridor Trail (Ok, Councillor Shiner supported that and since east-side of Yonge north of Finch is in Councillor Shiner riding, REimagining Yonge is Councillor Shiner's project too!,... and that means,....)
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-24#post-1311072
- it be extended south of Sheppard to Highway 401 - City Staff only extended it south of Sheppard to Avondale/Florence Ave (since it's too dangerous at Highway 401 without any cycling infrastructure there) - this segment at Sheppard & south is huge liability for project since MTO insist on 6-lanes here so CycleTrack is at cost of 2m of existing pedestrian sidewalk width and no space to provide uniform tree-line curb here
- CycleTracks over Bike Lanes (if you don't know difference, check the link below) - already proven it's a $12 million CycleTrack Pilot Study expected to fail that's why City Staff stole 75cm pedestrian sidewalk width per side to pad Centre Median to facilitate lower cost switch-back to 6-lane system
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-27#post-1314521

So in other words,... the Cycling/Minimum-Grid advocates are their own worst enemies!

Even Councillor Filion's office was perplexed when City Staff came back with 4-lane "Transform Yonge" with CycleTrack option but grew to it over time after believing it'll generate the maximum gain in sidewalk width (which is false, due to CityStaff's 4.5m padding of CentreMedian in their designs,... now Councillor Shiner's 6-lane "Enhance Yonge" with 3.0m Centre Median will generate the maximum gain in sidewalk width, as a whole).
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-28#post-1317416

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

You're obviously very, um, passionate and I'm not going to quibble with all your math and other details.

But you said the premise of the project is to maximize sidewalk space and that is false. This is a Municipal Class EA which outlines a specific problem statement and it's spelled out on the website.

The City of Toronto is carrying out a study that will evaluate opportunities to improve the streetscape and public realm for all users (pedestrians, cyclists, transit and vehicles) along Yonge Street from Sheppard Avenue to the Finch Hydro Corridor.

So your 65cm or whatever on a median, which might be relevant in the context of sidewalk space may be less relevant in the larger context of the public realm "for all users" etc.

 

[amnesiajune]

So your 65cm or whatever on a median, which might be relevant in the context of sidewalk space may be less relevant in the larger context of the public realm "for all users" etc.

I think he does have a point though. What's the benefit of a 4.5 meter median over the current 3 meters? Is that benefit worthwhile when the extended median takes up the space that could be used for a wider sidewalk, or for painted bike lanes?

 

[mkerian]

I think he does have a point though. What's the benefit of a 4.5 meter median over the current 3 meters? Is that benefit worthwhile when the extended median takes up the space that could be used for a wider sidewalk, or for painted bike lanes?

Wouldn't it be great to have four lanes, wider medians, and wider sidewalks?

This issue of bike lanes is like a red flag for bulls on either side of the issue.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

What's the benefit of the wide median on University Avenue? For one it provides public amenity space within the boulevard.

Whether it's the right or wrong choice is fine to debate but my point is still that this is not entirely about road users. It's about the appearance and function of the entire public realm, and that includes landscaping in the boulevard.

 

[amnesiajune]

What's the benefit of the wide median on University Avenue? For one it provides public amenity space within the boulevard.

We'd need a lot more than 4.5 meters for that.

 

[Fred.S]

The median width is debatable, but having one makes crossing mid-block much easier and safer for pedestrians, which will be especially attractive if there are only 2 lanes per direction. The median also helps to calm traffic, particularly if there are large trees visually narrowing the driving corridor.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

As already mentioned the existing Centre Median is 3.0m wide.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-28#post-1317591

The existing Centre Median is 3.0m wide to match the 3.0m width required for left turn lanes; here in mid-block:

Lane dimensions:

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...Lane_Widths_Guideline_Version_2.0_Jun2017.pdf

I went to all the public consultation for REimagining Yonge and the only width considered for Centre Median was 3.0m

Ok,... so now that we've established Centre Median should be 3.0m,... what's going on???

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I think he does have a point though. What's the benefit of a 4.5 meter median over the current 3 meters? Is that benefit worthwhile when the extended median takes up the space that could be used for a wider sidewalk, or for painted bike lanes?

The only purpose for widening the existing 3.0m Centre Median to 4.5m,... is for City Staff to Cover Their @ss!

I gave a technical and numerical explanation of "Transform Yonge North" here,...
Councillor Filion’s $51 million 4-lane “Transform Yonge” North of Sheppard (with CycleTracks) – “Engineered For Failure” Design
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-28#post-1317414


But let me try again with a more illustrative explanation,....
In their design, after the lane narrowing (ie: 6-lane Base) going from 6-lane to 4-lane with conversion of traffic lane to CycleTrack will generate 1.2m of sidewalk width gain per side which they originally place on the sidewalk (Centre Median stays at 3.0m):

Page 21 with 3.0m Centre Median - July 25, 2016: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...agining-Yonge-Street-PIC-2-Display-Panels.pdf
Here, when the CycleTracks fail and they have to switch back to a 6-lane system, they'll have to shift the expensive tree-line curb (everything above blue arrow by 75cm) - so they better have confidence in the CycleTracks!

Well, guess what,... when CityStaff were doing their Traffic Modelling (which I already proved was wrong),... CityStaff decided to Cover Their @ss by stealing 75cm of pedestrian sidewalk width from each side to pad Centre Median from 3.0m to 4.5m
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-24#post-1311431

Page 15 with 4.5m Centre Median - Sept 29, 2016: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...agining-Yonge-Street-PIC-3-Display-Panels.pdf
Here, when the CycleTracks fail and they have to switch back to a 6-lane system, they'll only have to demolish the barren extra wide 75cm curb on Centre Median (coloured in red) - they won't have to shift the expensive tree wells!

As you can see, that 75cm pedestrian sidewalk width CityStaff stole will only become an additional 75cm of barren curb width on the Centre Median:

Here, I've highlighted in RED that 75cm pedestrian sidewalk width CityStaff stole and placed onto each side of the Center Median,... it's a useless placeholder!:

Note: There's no sidewalk on the Centre Median,... existing 50cm curb and extra 75cm padding result in 1.25m wide curb,... sidewalk width must be 2.1m minimum on arterial road!

The only purpose of that extra 75cm on each side of the Centre Median is to serves as place-holder,.... so that those 2m wide rows of expensive in-ground tree-wells along curb & at Centre median are far enough apart from each other so CityStaff can go back to a 6-lane system cheaply without having to shift (destroy then rebuild) any of those expensive rows of in-ground tree-wells! Just take out CycleTrack and demolish the extra 75cm padding on each side of Centre Median,... and we have enough room to convert CycleTrack back to traffic lane!,.. relatively cheaply without having to disturb the rows of expensive in-ground tree wells!

Note: As demonstrated previously, 75cm padding is the minimum amount required to switch-back to a 6-lane system without disturbing the expensive rows of trees. Now instead of going back to 3.2m Travel lanes recommended for 50km/hr,... they're going to 3.0m Travel Lane more suitable for 40km/hr.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-28#post-1317414

Note: Of all the streetscape items (from end-to-end of Focus Area):
- each row of in-ground tree well is about $10 million each! (These are not the cheap above ground moveable concrete tree planters found on Yonge now)
- each CycleTrack is about $3 million
- each traffic lane is about $1 million
To shift a row of in-ground tree well, you have to destroy it (worth $10 million) and build a new row (cost $10 million)

This shows City Staff expects the CycleTracks to fail,.... CityStaff expects to switch back to a 6-lane system! CityStaff know their Traffic Model is not realistic. This is a very expensive CycleTrack Pilot Study.

REimagining Yonge was never about building a proper public realm infrastructure on Yonge Street for the community of North York Centre,... it was about the Cycling Advocate's Minimum-Grid,... aka: City Planning's Complete Streets,... aka: Transportation Services' Major Corridor Study

 

[mkerian]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...yor-to-support-north-yonge-st-bike-lanes.html

“Reducing one lane of traffic in each direction allows for expanded sidewalks, greenery, and more space for patios and public life. Bike lanes are part of the package, but they aren’t the impetus,” states the joint letter.

"Other signatories include architect Jack Diamond; urban designer Ken Greenberg; Anne Golden, chair of the Ryerson City Building Institute; Gil Penalosa, chair of 8 80 Cities; urban planner Joe Berridge; Richard Joy, executive director of the Urban Land Institute Toronto; former Toronto city chief planner Paul Bedford; Richard Peddie, the former chief executive of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment; Matthew Blackett, publisher and editor of Spacing Magazine; and Cherise Burda, executive director of Ryerson City Building Institute."

******

No talk of stealing cm from the median width or how City staff are in cahoots with the bike cabal...I smell a cover-up!