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Why do you keep bringing up Christianity? I certainly haven't.

Please inform us as to the likely consequences these deserters will face when they return to the USA? Firing squad? Long sentences in terrible jails? A few months jail time followed by discharge?

Send these deserters back, and send them now.
 
As much as I disapprove of the war in Iraq and would love to see the war resistors stay, they are not refugees. For them to be granted refugee status would be to trivialise the plight of real refugees who are escaping persecution, torture, and death.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Why do you keep bringing up Christianity? I certainly haven't.

Please inform us as to the likely consequences these deserters will face when they return to the USA? Firing squad? Long sentences in terrible jails? A few months jail time followed by discharge?

Send these deserters back, and send them now.
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I bring up your religion because you're the one who brings it up at this website. It's out there, I am just waiting to see some Christian like attribute come from you. You talk about homesless people like they are scum and these soldiers with such contempt.

Now after all this time you finally ask what the implication are to these men and women if they are sent back. You spent so many words pretending you knew, fighting against them and NOW YOU ASK THE QUESTION? You really would make a wonderful Republican.

These men and women can be forced back into the military, face jail time and will have the equivalent of a Felony on their record for life, which makes employment extremely difficult. All because they learned the war they already participated in is based on lies, the war they were fooled into fighting by people like you who pretend Iraq had something to do with 9/11. (you alluded to this in this very thread).

You obviously ignore the fact that most already served in the war and were stop lossed (the modern draft) into 2, 3 and 4 tours of duty, something a US soldier was not forced to do in any modern war. The fact that the National Guard was never used in such a manner until this vile war of choice.

Now you expect these people who stand up for peace to suffer even more than they already have because you're misinformed or unreasonably able to empathize with them.

Why don't you read "The Deserter's Tale" by Joshua Key and Lawrence Hill and then speak on this subject.
 
Mot said:
I bring up your religion because you're the one who brings it up at this website.
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Rubbish. When have I ever introduced any discussion of my religion at this website?

So, I challenge you, have a look at my 1,200 odd posts here, and tell me where I have brought up my religion. Here's the link, http://www.urbantoronto.ca/search.php?searchid=452336

Here, I've even done a thorough search for you. Here is every post I've ever made on the UT site mentioning the word "church" http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=7348&highlight=church&page=2 If you look, you'll see that any post I've made here is about historic architecture or Cabbagetown community involvement. No where do I talk about my personal religion or anything about Christianity.

Here is every post I've made made on UT mentioning the word "religion" http://www.urbantoronto.ca/search.php?searchid=452345 You'll find that I'm writing about Mark Steyn vs. the Canadian Islamic Congress, Cabbagetown, along with a brief comment on the decline of churches in Toronto.

I have never spoken of my own specific religious beliefs or convictions on this website, nor anywhere on the web. It's a private matter for me, and I never push anyone to follow me, nor do I ever enter into debates on my religion vs. others or anything along those lines.

My belief that these deserters must return to face the consequences of their actions is based not upon religion, but upon common sense, a belief that you complete what you start and face the consequences of your actions and a fairness to legitimate refugees who are facing death by tyrants, not a short jail sentence, fine and discharge in America for shirking the duty they volunteered for.

Please leave religion out of this discussion, as I certainly have.
 
I'll stand by Admiral Beez on this one: he has never promulgated his religion or his religious beliefs. He has mentioned that he goes to church, but so far as I recall, he has never put down anyone who is is a non-practitioner or non-believer.

As for the soldiers in question, they signed up knowingly to become soldiers. While I respect their right to dissent, their first avenue of dissent ought to be in the United States and with their own government. Dissent exacts a cost, and if it means a felony record, then that is the price they must pay to preserve their beliefs. By running away from the duty they signed up for, or from the burdens of dissent, these individuals inevitably leave others to carry out the responsibilities they have fled from.
 
Mot said:
Where is your Christian love for these men and women?
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Mot said:
I bring up your religion because you're the one who brings it up at this website. It's out there, I am just waiting to see some Christian like attribute come from you. You talk about homesless people like they are scum and these soldiers with such contempt.
Click to expand...

Matthew 10:34

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

WWJD? front line infantry!
 
ganjavih said:
Seriously, guys... let's cut out this religion stuff.
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i was merely pointing out how one shouldn't use religion to justify peace and/or asylum for those who don't want to fight in battle. there are passages in the bible that could justify just about anything; a good reason why religion should be kept out of this argument, pro or con the issue at hand.
 
He talks about his church yet offers no Christian compassion. It's just my observation. He goes after these soldiers who I personally know, so I went after him. All is fair in love and war.

We can continue beating the dead horse or let it go. I am game either way.

I understand most of you don't actually know the personal stories of these people as I do. I took the time to listen to them.
I also witnessed from inside the US the propaganda people actually believed. Progaganda Beez shared in this thread in his posting on Iraq.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
Matthew 10:34

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

WWJD? front line infantry!
Click to expand...

Good Point, many here believe soldiers should foolishly continue to risk their lives in Iraq because they were ignorant when signing up and were also misused into a war of choice by Coinservatives.

This war will end when the soldiers refuse to fight in it, these men and women are doing exactly that, they need to be rewarded not punished.
Some of you make it sound like just because people sign a contract, other people can force them to participate in immoral acts, and when they refuse they deserve to be punished for it. Very sad indeed.
 
Mot, honest to goodness! The point was made that you dragged religion into a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I still fail to see any reason at all why you did that. I see no evidence that Beez is a religious fanatic, and even if he were, so what, in the context of this thread?

You bring a valid argument, in terms of your feelings about U.S. deserters. I don't agree with you, as I had indicated before. I would prefer to give attention to real refugees who are suffering from real oppression. Neverthless, your point was valid, and you made it effectively, in the earlier part of this thread. Why not leave it at that, instead of going off on an irrelevant anti-religion rant?
 
Interesting Walt that when Beez attacks the Character of my War Resisting friends, you never said a word.

So I call out Christian hypocrisy on the actual subject of the thread and suddenly everyone provides fake outrage. (Except Promethius of course).

So you believe people who refuse to fight an immoral war and refuse to participate in immoral acts deserve to be punished. I disagree. So let it go.
 
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