Everyone's entailed to their opinion, mine is that cutting off nearly a third of the city regardless of how many people live there is the notion to ridicule.
There, you've just eliminated whatever respectability you had left. All you care about is serving land, not people. If Toronto annexed Durham Region, you'd recommend a subway to Uxbridge - and a monorail to Beaverton.
Again where's the money to fund two subway extensions going to come from?
Can't you read? It's one subway extension - we could easily pay for the RT replacement by cutting the Spadina extension.
And where's the money for one inch of your plan going to come from? Monorails don't grow on trees. Why propose tens of billions of dollars in expansion in one breath and then criticize any other opinion (even if it's also included in your plan) as impossible? Remember, you started this thread and posted the crazy map.
Believe you me, I think both proposals stink.
Both are on your map.
I'll admit it, there'll probably never be mass transit out to Meadowvale and Port Union
Port Union already has rapid transit - GO trains. You deserve to be laughed at if you think abandoning GO in favour of monorails is a wise option.
Of course the TTC and politicians will call them RT to decieve the average transit user, how else would they explain continually jacking up cash fares, claiming transit's the city's number one priority for decades now and yet only have a few kms of 'stubway' to show for it (ones that lose 000s in operational revenue everyday by the way).
The TTC's priority is moving people, that's why we have, by pretty much any measurement, a spectacular surface network. We don't have monorails to the Rouge Park because there's no people there that need to be moved. I don't believe that any transit system in the world is operationally profitable (hasn't it been suggested that even Hong Kong's is profitable solely due to real estate?). GO's trains are often standing room only even while charging an arm and a leg and they're, what, barely 90% of the way there?
Also if you see the value of connecting a major node to another even if that means running a line via low-density sprawl areas, why can't you understand the virtue and importance of linking Morningside/West Hill/UTSC to Kennedy or even Rouge Hill/Port Union to Kennedy?
Why must you always compare apples to orangutans? Are you trying to be difficult or do you not know the difference? You don't seem to understand what a node is if you think Morningside is home to several of them. UTSC is not a major node. Sorry, it's just not big enough and it's surrounded by tons of parkland and sprawlly bungalows. If they have plans to expand to house 25,000 students, then maybe there's potential but if not, express buses are all that will ever be warranted. Why must Rouge Hill be connected to Kennedy, anyway? There's a GO train that could probably get people across the city and into Mississauga in 45 minutes (since you're sooo concerned with connecting the corners), while a subway would take twice as long.
Malvern to STC? Pearson to Yonge-Eglinton? Sherway to Kipling? Beaches to Yonge-Queen? Long Branch to Yonge-Queen? Albion Mall via Sheppard West to Sheppard-Yonge? Virtually my entire plan, why can't you grasp what I've been trying to reiterate this entire thread now?
Malvern to STC = express buses and a Midtown GO line. Pearson to Y&E is far less important than Pearson to downtown. As for the Beaches/Long Branch, they are already about a concession away from subways...in other posts, when I said that being one concession away from subways for Jane & Finch and Don Mills & Finch isn't good enough, you said it was. Why the double standard? Albion Mall - I told you several times I'd connect it
directly to NYCC with the Sheppard subway and
directly with Pearson, too (and possibly with the Weston line, but its routing is more up for grabs). Rexdale in your plan would not be directly connected with either place. You can't grasp that I do support wildly extensive expansions of the subway system, it's just that I don't support circuitous extensions to the greenbelt or exurbia or to exclusively low density areas. I also support massive GO improvements to help more distant areas, while you ignore them completely or recommend monorails.
So if YUS was extended to Richmond Hill Ctr/Langstaff GO would this concentration of buses still be an issue?
Yonge Street north of Finch sees 120 buses per hour...of course a subway extension would slash that, allowing bus service to be boosted elsewhere.
As for Malvern, it does not take over an hour to get to STC...if the 133C on occasion takes almost that long it is solely because the routing is so ridiculous. Rerouting it could cut the time in half - buses could travel west along Passmore/McNicoll to Brimley or Middlefield and get to STC in 20 minutes, but the TTC is so inflexible that this will never happen.
Take the complaints from Morningside Heights away and there'd be no one from the public calling for Malvern subway extensions, just politicians, who want to give one to Malvern because it's "underprivileged." Oh, and I forgot to mention - the Malvern to STC corridor is served by about 25-30 buses. 30 vs 120...yeah, that sounds comparable to me!
No you don't get it, sentencing residents, no matter how few, to long bus trips because they were unfortunate enough to not live near Yonge St is no way to tackle urban planning
Did you miss the 19 other times where I said I'd boost all GO train lines and build maybe 80km of subway lines? And believe me, you're not in a good position to be lecturing on what constitutes good planning.
and has Guildwood condos, Morningside Mall, West Hill commercial/residential area, Centenary Hosp., Centennial HP College, UTSC as major trippers/destinations
So four condos at Guildwood, a college with a few hundred students (that is smaller than every high school, by the way), a university campus that only sees riders when classes are in session (yet if I suggest bringing a subway to Seneca
College, a college with more students than UTSC, you laugh), a hospital (one or two crescents of townhouses generates more trips), and the sprawlly bungalows and huge swaths of parkland around West Hill don't render a subway useless?
maximum connectivity=maximum ridership=maximum efficiency=better Toronto
I guess travel times, cost, and access don't affect ridership. How are two lines to the Zoo efficient?
That was back when I thought I was discoursing with someone wouldn't wasn't flying off the handle with insults at every suggestion I make!
You suggestions are almost all bad...and they're getting worse (monorail, etc.).
Someone who'd grasp it's cheaper to curve the Sheppard line down Don Mills (since Sheppard cannot support a subway anyhow) than starting a DRL line from scratch.
It's not cheaper...the existing Sheppard line doesn't make it cheaper to tunnel around Front Street or build a line in the median of Don Mills. If Sheppard cannot support a subway, then Malvern cannot, Rexdale cannot, York U cannot, West Hill cannot, etc., etc., etc. Simple as that.
Graydon Hall in of itself isn't that major sans a few hundred office workers and even fewer Lesmillites. Only Lawrence could handle subway traffic but is relatively close enough to Eglinton to not really need it at all.
The York Mills bus will fill a station there, just as buses bring in the majority of riders to most suburban stations. If Lawrence doesn't need a subway station, than the Beach doesn't need one either.
I only wish I could post my station layouts, it's hard for me to explain the full scope of my plans without visual aids.
Go ahead, waste your time.
But anyhow alot of the heat I get for opposing the DRL is unfounded when you consider my intention to link nearby nodes to heavy rail via tram shuttle or moving escalator
I bet your shuttle plan would mean the complete dismantlement of the surface network. And I sure hope you've accounted in your plan for escalators to move.
Hey I didn't put a subway on Sheppard nor was I apart of the committee that suggested Malvern/Zoo become the route end for the SRT way back yonder.
Well, the subway's on Sheppard, so deal with it. And the RT would have terminated at Markham & Sheppard (actually aligning towards the NW, possibly preventing further expansions).
and ideally thought of this extension as a SRT extension until subway upgrade if needed by 2060 or greater
The ridership for a subway is already there...the SRT's numbers don't show it because they can't - it's been at capacity for years despite significant population growth nearby.
Markham-Sheppard, Morningside-Ellesmere or Port Union-Lawrence, if not all at least one for Christ's sake
How bout none? How bout more deserving areas first? Why waste billions on areas that can't support rapid transit or areas that already have or could very, very, very easily have great GO access?
According to several Google searches and blog visits
Just because Steve Munro says someone 20 years ago brought the subject up, it doesn't change the fact that it's never been seriously proposed.
I couldn't see this neo-China/neo-India level of density you're describing anywhere along McCowan up to Steeles. A few condo owners who possess their own means of transportation is no indicator or gurantee of subway success
Yet the owners of three condos at Guildwood deserve a subway. Your limited intellect probably compromises your vision, so I'll tell you that the McCowan area is infested with 25x125 foot lots with a persons per household rate well above the city average, along with a linear spread of high-rise clusters and malls, AKA a perfect recipe for rapid transit. Your perfect recipe includes parkland, hospitals, and bungalows on quarter acre lots.
but for all the people needing the other nodes along Eglinton it's still detrimental bus claustrophobia
If the DRL was built up to Eglinton both in the east and the west, almost everyone along Eglinton would be less than 10 minutes away from a station by bus.
Minimizing it's importance ruins transit as a whole as it's the only major east-west artery that spans the city
People travelling from Durham to Peel can take the 401 or get on a GO train...the TTC should not be subsidizing epic commutes for people that don't even live
or work in Toronto. If a few bus routes were altered and a few GO lines were improved, a cross-town Eglinton route would be a ghost town unless Eglinton saw massive "Avenues" redevelopment.
Hmm, this story reminds me of someone, but who?!
Don't bother telling me unless you spell his name correctly.