[AlvinofDiaspar]

BurlOak:

Well, it's suboptimal - considering the riders are probably not dealing with just that one transfer in their trip - every one meant additional wait and inconvenience. I think there's are some difficult choices to be made here - full conversion to LRT, stump extension of the subway line or subway + LRT - each with their own set of benefits and drawbacks.

AoD

 

[BurlOak]

Below grade LRT connecting at subway level (same platform, just extended) to just past the 404 was about $400M.

Fully above-grade LRT (no tunnel at all) would be closer to $75M possibly as low as $20M if you keep the Don Mills stop in the middle of the street and don't turn into existing bus station and are willing to run in mixed traffic across the bridge. There is a tunnel running under Sheppard that it might tap into.

If you wanted, you could fill in the space between the East Bound and West Bound bridges to gain about 4m, and take out the 2 sidewalks to get another 4m. This would give enough room on the bridge to have a curb separated median LRT with no loss of traffic lanes. The sidewalks could be added either hanginf off the exterior, or with an extra line of beams on each side.

 

[BurlOak]

BurlOak:

Well, it's suboptimal - considering the riders are probably not dealing with just that one transfer in their trip - every one meant additional wait and inconvenience. I think there's are some difficult choices to be made here - full conversion to LRT, stump extension of the subway line or subway + LRT.

AoD

If the DRL is done to Eglinton, some (many) may even transfer to the Don Mills LRT instead and head downtown that way.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

DRL should be extended to Don Mills - but even then, only one mode should operate along Sheppard just to minimize transfer for those who aren't heading downtown.

AoD

 

[vz64]

DRL should be extended to Don Mills - but even then, only one mode should operate along Sheppard just to minimize transfer for those who aren't heading downtown.

AoD

Makes sense! On unrelated note--maybe a problem with DRL is its name? Sounds like some sort of constipation relief remedy Maybe it should be called "Diagonally" or some other less-utilitarian name...

 

[ShonTron]

that's an interesting idea. I am not sure whether such a vehicle exists that allows pantograph on the street, and third rail while in the tunnel.

Not in the street, but the Metro-North trains on the New Haven line switch from DC third rail (required for entry to Grand Central) to AC overhead power in the Bronx. It would certainly be technically possible for Sheppard with the right rolling stock.

 

[CDL.TO]

Not in the street, but the Metro-North trains on the New Haven line switch from DC third rail (required for entry to Grand Central) to AC overhead power in the Bronx. It would certainly be technically possible for Sheppard with the right rolling stock.

Line 51 in Amsterdam uses third rail in the tunnel then pops up a pantograph to run in a Transit City-style street median.

Also, the Rotterdam Metro uses pantograph when it runs on the surface beside streets with level crossings, but third rail when it goes underground.

 

[nfitz]

Donte HATE ME,,,, So you could use that 300m savings to convert the SUBWAY to LRT and have one full line?

Your LRT however at Don Mills station would be about 5 stories above your subway. It's connecting the two that are costly (though I think there'd be some serious issues on that bridge over the 401 ... Eglinton is simpler, as you are going under the DVP). Now I suppose you could just run LRT most of the way to Leslie, and then put a portal west of Leslie, to hook into the line just east of the subway bridge over the Don River ...

I don't think I'd do it ... but points for thinking outside the box!

 

[nfitz]

Not in the street, but the Metro-North trains on the New Haven line switch from DC third rail (required for entry to Grand Central) to AC overhead power in the Bronx. It would certainly be technically possible for Sheppard with the right rolling stock.

Heck, the new AMT commuter line in Montreal switches from AC to diesel!

Bombardier has been pushing their Flexity unit with the PRIMOVE technology that allows you to to use underground power for part of the route, and switch to the catenary for other parts of the route. http://www.bombardier.com/en/transp...ty/technology/primove-catenary-free-operation

 

[MetroMan]

Sheppard as a DRL

I was glad to see the only Transit City line that I disagreed with being put to further consultation. What are the options? How far can the Metrolinx + Federal money take us?

My preferred plan would be to take the nearly $1B of Sheppard dedicated funds and create a a WaterfronToronto like startup fund that would kick start construction of subway expansion and attract private investment.

The money losing Sheppard line can be converted into one of the busiest and most useful lines by choosing an alignment that makes it a DRL.

1 - Build an expansion to Victoria Park with a major bus hub at this new terminus station.
2 - The line continues south on Victoria Park
3 - Vic Park is mostly a mix of warehouses, strip malls, parks, golf courses with some neighbourhoods interspersed. There are about 12km of development possibilities all the way to the beaches. This a goldmine for the city which can sell land and air rights to fund a continuous expansion of the subway southbound.
4 - A couple of options then branch out:
a) Arrive at the rail corridor north of Gerrard and take it to Union Station as an express DRL.
b) Take the Vic park subway to the Beaches and follow Queen St as a DRL route to eventually replace the very busy 501 Streetcar.

Option A more quickly takes the DRL to the downtown core and can find funding via the development corridor on Vic Park. Option B would be a major transit project under Queen St. E and W that would require federal or provincial funding.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Metro-North Commuter Railroad New Haven Line power changeover...

Not in the street, but the Metro-North trains on the New Haven line switch from DC third rail (required for entry to Grand Central) to AC overhead power in the Bronx. It would certainly be technically possible for Sheppard with the right rolling stock.

ST: I noted MNCR's New Haven Line changeover from DC third rail to AC catenary mentioned
and I will add that in recent years the changeover point today is now at Pelham
which is adjacent to the Bronx Borough/Westchester County line...MNCR
extended third rail from Woodlawn in the central Bronx during the 90s...

Using dual power source vehicles-even with their flexibility-can increase their costs
and they are even more elaborate since they are literally "sub-stations" on wheels
which is exactly what MNCR's New Haven MU fleet is...the M2/4/6 and the new M8
cars which can all operate on both of MNCR's power sources...LI MIKE

 

[rbt]

The money losing Sheppard line can be converted into one of the busiest and most useful lines by choosing an alignment that makes it a DRL.

You're proposing spending tens of thousands of dollars per resident in Toronto. Before I cut a cheque for my $20,000 portion I want to see a solid business case that it is a cost effective option.

 

[Rainforest]

I was glad to see the only Transit City line that I disagreed with being put to further consultation. What are the options? How far can the Metrolinx + Federal money take us?

My preferred plan would be to take the nearly $1B of Sheppard dedicated funds and create a a WaterfronToronto like startup fund that would kick start construction of subway expansion and attract private investment.

The money losing Sheppard line can be converted into one of the busiest and most useful lines by choosing an alignment that makes it a DRL.

1 - Build an expansion to Victoria Park with a major bus hub at this new terminus station.
2 - The line continues south on Victoria Park
3 - Vic Park is mostly a mix of warehouses, strip malls, parks, golf courses with some neighbourhoods interspersed. There are about 12km of development possibilities all the way to the beaches. This a goldmine for the city which can sell land and air rights to fund a continuous expansion of the subway southbound.
4 - A couple of options then branch out:
a) Arrive at the rail corridor north of Gerrard and take it to Union Station as an express DRL.
b) Take the Vic park subway to the Beaches and follow Queen St as a DRL route to eventually replace the very busy 501 Streetcar.

Option A more quickly takes the DRL to the downtown core and can find funding via the development corridor on Vic Park. Option B would be a major transit project under Queen St. E and W that would require federal or provincial funding.

The problem is that DRL has to start from downtown. Building a 20-km line you proposed in one shot is impossible financially, whereas a staged construction would yield incremental benefits only if the connection to downtown is in Phase I.

 

[Tulse]

The problem is that DRL has to start from downtown. Building a 20-km line you proposed in one shot is impossible financially, whereas a staged construction would yield incremental benefits only if the connection to downtown is in Phase I.

And that is one of the big issues with the DRL -- in order to be effective at all, the first phase has to connect both Danforth and Yonge, and that's a long, expensive stretch to cover. There really is no way to do a DRL in small increments, at least until one makes that first Danforth-Yonge connection.

 

[BMO]

And that is one of the big issues with the DRL -- in order to be effective at all, the first phase has to connect both Danforth and Yonge, and that's a long, expensive stretch to cover. There really is no way to do a DRL in small increments, at least until one makes that first Danforth-Yonge connection.

somehow I get the feeling that if the first connection of the DRL is built Yonge - Danforth, we won't ever see the rest of the DRL in either of our lives.